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Mark for Publish/Deletion not being saved

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:39 am
by jfairbrass
Hi, I'm running FPV 1.6.226 and I've just noticed that when I hit the P or X keys, to flag a photo for publishing or deletion, this setting is not being saved - ie. no XMP file is generated with this info.

The globe icon or the red X icon do appear in the lower-left corner of the screen when I hit the keys, and FPV remembers this info for as long as it is running (I can skip to other pics, then come back to the ones I've just marked and the icons are still there). But if I close FPV and restart it, the icons are gone. And as I mentioned, FPV doesn't generate any XMP file accordingly. This is in spite of the fact that "Create/update Adobe XMP sidecar files" is enabled in my settings.

However, I can use image labelling or rating (hitting the 1-5 keys or Shift+1-5 etc) and that works fine - in that case the XMP file is created. Although if I hit P or X afterwards, that info is still not saved to the now-existing XMP file. So in other words FPV is only able to save the label/rating info to the XMP file, but not the flag info.

For the record, I'm doing this with Canon .CR2 files. And I know for a fact that this has worked for me correctly in the past, certainly with older versions of FPV. I have no idea why it's not working now.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Re: Mark for Publish/Deletion not being saved

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:54 am
by Axel
This behavior is by design. More information: http://www.fastpictureviewer.com/help/#damfrontend

You must "use" the flags in the current session. If you think about it, let's say you open a folder with 2000 images, then you press Shift+X (mark all for deletion). What should the program do? Create 2000 sidecars, just to delete them moments later when you hit Ctrl+X?

Those two flags are transients (i.e. kept in memory and never saved), just like when you make a selection in a Window Explorer window: close the window and your selection is gone.

Re: Mark for Publish/Deletion not being saved

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:14 pm
by jfairbrass
Okay, thanks for the explanation on that. I wasn't aware that Lightroom didn't write those flags to XMP.

However, am I mistaken in thinking that previous versions of FPV did, in fact, write those flags to XMP? And that Lightroom was able to read that information, even if Lightroom itself did not support writing that info to XMP? I'm fairly sure that in the past I was able to flag an image in FPV and it would create an .xmp file as a result. I'm also sure (a little less sure) that Lightroom was able to read that same info when I imported those pics into Lightroom after flagging them in FPV. Am I mistaken?

If that was possible with previous versions of FPV, then may I request it be added back, as an optional feature for those of us who want it? Eg. a setting in the Options of FPV, which we can check, which makes FPV save the flag info to an .xmp file accordingly. That would be great.

I do understand your point about using Shift-X to flag 2000 images for deletion. However I'd prefer to have that option available if I need it, if that fits my own workflow (although personally I'd never do that for 2000 pics, nor would I then delete them moments later).

My preference is to view the images in FPV first, flag the ones I want to keep or reject using P or X, and then import them into Lightroom for editing, with Lightroom being able to read the flag info. Because FPV is obviously way faster at browsing through images than Lightroom, being able to do this is a big advantage. Skimming through hundreds of pics in Lightroom one-by-one to flag each one as keep/reject would take forever due to Lightroom's slower speed compared to FPV. I know I can achieve something similar by using the XMP Labels or Ratings, but obviously there's an advantage to using the flags as that's what they're actually intended for. :)

Even if Lightroom can't "read" the flag info, and only FPV can, it would still be an advantage to me to have the flag info somehow saved for future use in FPV, if that's possible.

Re: Mark for Publish/Deletion not being saved

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:11 am
by Axel
The flags were always in-memory in FPV Pro.

There is no provision in XMP to store such flags in a standard way. That means LR will never be able to read them. Actually, the Pick/Reject flags are not even shared between Adobe applications - for example Bridge CS5 and Lightroom 3.x - these really are internal stuff. Hopefully a future version of the XMP specification will allows to store this data in a standard way.

FPV does create and maintain a database of file properties like LR does, so there is no convenient place to store the flags to make them persist across sessions. Creating a (relatively) complex XML file for each image just to store what amounts to be two bits of information would not be efficient, and not everyone use sidecars. Writing inside the files themselves is not really an option unless it can be done in a standard way which has a clearly defined meaning for all compliant applications.

Those features are meant to be used in the same session. You flag images for deletion (that's what the X key in FPV is meant for) and when you are done you hit Ctrl+X to actually delete all marked images at once. This is the same thing as using the Del key, only deferred. Those flags are nothing more than "selection" flags just as when you select multiple files in Explorer with Ctrl+Click, then hit Del at the end to erase the files. If you forget to press Del, or close the Explorer window, the selection is gone. Same thing if you exit FastPictureViewer with deletion marks still set (i.e. you did not delete the files). The latest version now shows a warning box if the user exists with deletion or publishing marks still set.

As explained in the tutorial page I pointed out before, there are standard ways to write persistent metadata that migrates and round-trips between all compliant applications, namely by using one the standard XMP fields like Rating, Label, or Urgency, whose actual meaning is entirely up to you.

You can also actually delete the files directly from FPV, or create a batch processing rule that moves files marked for deletion in some special folder or anything else that would suit you.

Re: Mark for Publish/Deletion not being saved

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:52 pm
by MichaelEzra
My concern on this topic is that - for example - after going through 2000 images manually and marking 500 for deletion, I accidentally press the Escape key. FPV exits and all selections for deletion are lost. I have not tested this, not sure if the same would occur if I navigate to a different directory in the same FPV session.

It would be helpful if in such case(s) FPV would display a confirmation dialog before exiting/discarding any user selections.

Re: Mark for Publish/Deletion not being saved

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:52 am
by Axel
It's done already (exit warning), please update to the current version, thanks.

Re: Mark for Publish/Deletion not being saved

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:30 am
by alyssaly
MichaelEzra wrote:My concern on this topic is that - for example - after going through 2000 images manually and marking 500 for deletion, I accidentally press the Escape key. FPV exits and all selections for deletion are lost. I have not tested this, not sure if the same would occur if I navigate to a different directory in the same FPV session.

It would be helpful if in such case(s) FPV would display a confirmation dialog before exiting/discarding any user selections.

Maybe! :roll: