Pick / Reject Status - Focus highlighter

Describe any features you would like to see in future versions of FastPictureViewer Professional.

Pick / Reject Status - Focus highlighter

Postby roeglin on Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:58 pm

First I would like to second the suggestion of a "filter" feature to show only images e.g. with a specific rating. Besides I would love to see two other features that could speed up the workflow:

1.) A pick/reject status
In addition to ratings at least Lightroom and Bibble 5 are also using Pick/Reject/Unflagged (Lightroom) or Tagged/Rejected/Untagged (Bibble 5 for the inital review and it seems to me, that their use is becoming more and more popular.
This allows e.g. a quick first run to mark all out of focus or otherwise unusable images as rejected and continue with rating the picks. I don't know what other people think about that but I am pretty sure that this still belongs to the core features and should not notably affect the overall speed.

2.) A focus highlighter
I really like the idea of highlighting the area in focus during the review process as first(?) introduced by PhaseOne in CaptureOne 5.
I am aware that this is probably much more complex to implement and could in addition have a bigger effect on performance. However, depending on the type of shots you do this might dramatically speed up the culling process for which FPV is used quite often I guess.

Anyway, keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Lars
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Re: Pick / Reject Status - Focus highlighter

Postby Axel on Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:54 am

The filtered view seems to be an important feature and should improve the usefulness of the program. For example you could use the existing "star rating" system and rate 1 for rejects and 2 for keepers in the 1st pass, then filter to display only the 2's to 5's and refine your rating in a second pass... Then a batch copy plugin could be used to copy/move all the 5's to some folder, or delete the 1's, etc. You could also use the XMP Labels or Photoshop Urgency and establish some sort of conventions for your workflow, e.g. use the standard rating for image appreciation, labels for accept/reject status, and urgency for something else. FPV already supports 3 different ratings so I'm not sure there is a need to introduce a 4th one, but filtering definitely makes sense...

As for suggestion #2 it probably involves a lot of computations and I'm not sure of the feasibility in the context of FPV, but I'll nevertheless have a look at the program you mentionned... also note that CaptureOne Pro costs exactly 10 times more than FPV, one can expect a couple of advanced features at that price 8-)
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Re: Pick / Reject Status - Focus highlighter

Postby roeglin on Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:45 pm

Axel wrote:The filtered view seems to be an important feature and should improve the usefulness of the program. For example you could use the existing "star rating" system and rate 1 for rejects and 2 for keepers in the 1st pass, then filter to display only the 2's to 5's and refine your rating in a second pass... Then a batch copy plugin could be used to copy/move all the 5's to some folder, or delete the 1's, etc. You could also use the XMP Labels or Photoshop Urgency and establish some sort of conventions for your workflow, e.g. use the standard rating for image appreciation, labels for accept/reject status, and urgency for something else. FPV already supports 3 different ratings so I'm not sure there is a need to introduce a 4th one, but filtering definitely makes sense...

Of course you can (ab)use different things to fiddle that into a workflow. I just prefer to avoid solutions that require some effort to establish a workaround if there are simpler solutions. And since everyone prefers a different workflow IMHO it is good to be as flexible as possible in these things! For example using the ratings would already block two of the five levels available to mimic the pick/reject status while labels are not exclusive as the pick/reject/unmarked status. Probably not the best argument but apparently others have seen the need to introduce that feature. :roll:

In combination with filtering for unmarked images and auto-advance this seems to be by far the fastest solution to go through a shot and as mentioned it is becoming more and more popular in the Lightroom community - although i typically avoid the use of "fast" and "Lightroom" in the same sentence. 8-)

As for suggestion #2 it probably involves a lot of computations and I'm not sure of the feasibility in the context of FPV, but I'll nevertheless have a look at the program you mentionned... also note that CaptureOne Pro costs exactly 10 times more than FPV, one can expect a couple of advanced features at that price 8-)


I am well aware, that CaptureOne is more expensive but it is also not a direct competitor, since it is a full-blown raw developing solution like Lightroom, Bibble, DxO and all the others around. Since I am using Bibble for my RAW development I'll definitely not invest in a license for CaptureOne to just use that single feature. But during evaluation of the new version I really liked it and thats why I posted it as a suggestion for my favourite culling and reviewing tool. ;)
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Re: Pick / Reject Status - Focus highlighter

Postby MichaelEzra on Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:48 pm

FYI, PhotoMe (http://www.photome.de) also supports highlighting the focus area
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Re: Pick / Reject Status - Focus highlighter

Postby roeglin on Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:09 pm

MichaelEzra wrote:FYI, PhotoMe (http://www.photome.de) also supports highlighting the focus area


Does it really support highlighting the area in focus as shown on the CaptureOne site? I know, that it can highlight the autofocus sensor, that was in focus, which is typically read from the EXIF Makernotes.
Allthough this is helpful from time to time as well it is different from what CaptureOne does. CaptureOne really puts a mask over the whole image highlighting the areas in focus (see link in original post). The last time i tested PhotoMe i did not see that feature.

Cheers,
Lars
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Re: Pick / Reject Status - Focus highlighter

Postby Axel on Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:50 am

Regarding pick/reject status, starting from v1.1.140 you can use the Batch Delete function to mark your "rejects" for deletion and quickly erase them all at once when you are done reviewing: press X to mark photos, then Ctrl+X to delete all marked photos at once very quickly.

This function erases both the JPEG and the raw if you shoot in RAW+JPG mode, and can optionally move images to the Recycle Bin (slower) if desired.

For the "picks" you can use the XMP rating function (or Urgency, or Label) and create file management rules to copy/move (or export images as web-ready JPEGs) using the Batch File Processor plug-in.
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Re: Pick / Reject Status - Focus highlighter

Postby clauro on Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:37 pm

Hi,

I subscribe to the Tagged/Rejected/Untagged Status. And if you already have a flag for marking files for Batch Delete function way not implement this status and use Rejected for Batch Delete. In this way you have compatibility between FPV and Lightroom and I can mark some file and delete them some other time. Or maybe set up some action to move them into a separate folder.

And for Focus highlighter, I think that using the Metadate to find the autofocus sensor points and display them like in a viewfinder. I saw what CaptureOne does but I don't think that you need to implement this in this fine and very fast Image Viewer. As the name suggests is a image viewer not a program that edit or process images. You need to make a very complex algorithm to find the focus area and it is not worthed. If you display the focus points embedded by the camera in EXIF we can figure out there the focus was. There is also the subject distance in EXIF and with Aperture, Focal distance, camera sensor size you can calculate DOF values ( Total DOF, in front and behind the subject). This values are also useful and can replace the values in the Info Box when you are in the Focus Points Mode (this could be enable by keeping press a key). This could be a very nice feature in Lightroom also, Nikon Cature NX show you the focus points also.

Very cool application and keep up the good work.
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Re: Pick / Reject Status - Focus highlighter

Postby dd-b on Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:34 am

I'm a fan of a separate pick/reject flag. Here's why: for documentary / journalistic photography, I sometimes have to "pick" photos that are, objectively, mediocre. But they're the best I have of some thing. Rather than lying in the rating and saying they're 'good', I'd rather correctly rate them 'mediocre', and then pick them for the final group anyway. Obviously this isn't an issue for photos that are basically artistic; but that's by no means all there is to the field.
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Re: Pick / Reject Status - Focus highlighter

Postby Axel on Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:56 pm

You can do just that today, using a "Label" (1-5) or the "Urgency" (1-9), which are two attributes entirely separate from the Rating.

While the Rating's use seems obvious (5 stars is best possible, 4 very good, etc) there is no general conventions for the use of Labels or Urgencies.

In your own workflow, you can decide once and for all that images labeled "1" are picks, images labeled "2" are maybe's, images labeled "3" are rejects - or anything else, whatever suits you - and then create a rule for the batch processor with a condition on the Label value, to copy / move / delete / export according to the a condition set on the Label value (and any number of additional conditions, as needed).

Or you could use the "Urgency" and create your convention for this attribute (example: Urgency 1 = pick, Urgency 2 = reject) and make a batch processor rule with a condition on the Urgency instead of the Label. All this is pretty straightforward and can be done in a few clicks.

In FPV user interface,

- Rating is set by pressing 1, 2, ...
- Labels are set by pressing Shift+1, Shift+2, ...
- Urgencies are set by pressing Ctrl+1, Ctrl+2, ...

..once enabled in the program options.

All three attributes are separate, and, unlike LR's internal pick/reject flag, are part of the XMP standard thus will stay with your images and should seamlessly move back and forth between XMP-compliant applications, either embedded or in sidecars.

To make a long story short: enable Labels in the program options, then just decide that Shift+1 means "pick" and Shift+2 means "reject" to you, and you are done. If you already use XMP Labels for another purpose, enable Urgencies in the options instead, and use Ctrl+1 and Ctrl+2 to tag the images.

The XMP head-up-display (D key) shows all three attributes (Rating, Label, Urgency) and the batch processor (F key) has independent conditions on all three too, so it all fits nicely together and you are not constrained to use only the Rating and give it several meanings: you can implement your own Pick/Reject/Untagged convention in at least two different ways with existing functionality and leave the Rating to its natural purpose.

Now, before anyone says "yes but Lightroom...", here are some important quotes from Lightroom's documentation:

  • Pick and Reject flags don’t carry over from one folder view or collection to the next.
  • Pick and Reject flags don’t go along with images when they’re viewed outside of Lightroom. If you view an image in Bridge, it won’t have a Pick or Reject flag, even if it is flagged in Lightroom.
http://thelightroomlab.com/2008/12/using-pick-and-reject-flags-in-lightroom/

The "XMP Label" or the "Photoshop Urgency" standard attibutes, that I suggest to use with FastPictureViewer, sticks with the images as they move across applications. Also the limitations quoted above means that there is no way an external app can create the Yes/No flag that LR uses: it seems that Adobe made an ad-hoc convention that is internal to Lightroom, as they own Bridge software does not interoperate with it.

I see how it would be great to set LR's pick/reject straight from FPV, but I'm afraid it's not going to be possible unless LR start using an XMP attribute for that in some future version, and actually import/export it from/to other applications.

A Pick/Reject status flag, private to FPV, could be implemented together with a corresponding rule in the batch processor. This would offer another way to perform this kind of selection but then I'm not sure where this flag could be stored to work across sessions. Within a given viewing session, pick and reject can be faked very easily using the "Publish" (P) flag for "pick" and "Mark for Deletion" (X) flag for "reject". The batch processor has contitions on those two flags too, so it's a breeze to, say, erase all rejects and copy (or move) the picks some place else, and it's also a 3rd way to mimic LR's Pick/Reject with existing functionality already built in FPV Pro.

Following this thread, a "Using FastPictureViewer Professional with Adobe Lightroom (and other DAM)" section was added to the tutorial's page.
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